Respected Advaitins,
Namaste,
The discussion on "Real & Unreal" is very absorbing.
I may say:
If the person asking whether Ishwara is real or not, or doubting whether Ishwara
is real or not, is real, then Ishwara is real. If the person asking this is
unreal, who is asking this, an unreal cannot ask.
Please clarify my understanding.
Warm Regards


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Namaste Shri Mani-ji,

--- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani@y...> wrote:

> If the person asking whether Ishwara is real or not,
> or doubting whether Ishwara is real or not, is real,
> then Ishwara is real. If the person asking this is
> unreal, who is asking this, an unreal cannot ask.

I like the way your answer is articulated. And of course, I agree
with it. :-)

Warm regards,
Chittaranjan

Hi Chittaranjan ji and all,

Even asking and questioning about existence of Ishwara
is the greatest ignorance possible because I know that
Ishwara is there and He is as much there as we are and
u are and me are.Demanding a proof of it is sign of
ignorance.My brothere have even spoken to Ishwara and
seen him as we can see each other.It all happened
while we were opening durga temple crea ted by us near
delhi.

Hare Krishna!!!

Thanx and Reagards,
Amit



--- Chittaranjan Naik <chittaranjan_naik@...>
wrote:

> Namaste Shri Mani-ji,
>
> --- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "R.S.MANI"
> <r_s_mani@y...> wrote:
>
> > If the person asking whether Ishwara is real or
> not,
> > or doubting whether Ishwara is real or not, is
> real,
> > then Ishwara is real. If the person asking this is
>
> > unreal, who is asking this, an unreal cannot ask.
>
> I like the way your answer is articulated. And of
> course, I agree
> with it. :-)
>
> Warm regards,
> Chittaranjan
>
>
>
>




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Namaste Shri Amit-ji,

I bow down to you, Amitji.

Pranams,
Chittaranjan


--- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, abbhay lona <iamabbhay@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chittaranjan ji and all,
>
> Even asking and questioning about existence of Ishwara
> is the greatest ignorance possible because I know that
> Ishwara is there and He is as much there as we are and
> u are and me are.Demanding a proof of it is sign of
> ignorance.My brothere have even spoken to Ishwara and
> seen him as we can see each other.It all happened
> while we were opening durga temple crea ted by us near
> delhi.
>
> Hare Krishna!!!
>
> Thanx and Reagards,
> Amit
>
>

Namaste:

In Gita Chapter 9 verses 11 to 15, Lord Krishna explains why His
grace is necessary to recognize Him. Shankara explains that without
Isvara's grace, it is impossible to recognize Him!

avajaananti maaM muuDhaa maanushhii.n tanumaashritam.h .
paraM bhaavamajaananto mama bhuutamaheshvaram.h

The ignorant ones, not knowing My supreme natures as the great Lord
of all beings, disregard Me when I assume human form. (9.11)

moghaashaa moghakarmaaNo moghaGYaanaa vichetasaH .
raakshasiimaasurii.n chaiva prakR^itiM mohinii.n shritaaH

The ignorant persons having false hopes, false actions, and false
knowledge, possess the delusive (or Taamasika) qualities (See 16.04-
18) of fiends and demons. (9.12)

mahaatmaanastu maaM paartha daiviiM prakR^itimaashritaaH .
bhajantyananyamanaso GYaatvaa bhuutaadimavyayam.h

But great souls, O Arjuna, who possess divine qualities (See 16.01-
03) know Me as the (material and efficient) cause of creation and
imperishable, and worship Me single-mindedly. (9.13)

satataM kiirtayanto maa.n yatantashcha dR^iDhavrataaH .
namasyantashcha maaM bhak{}tyaa nityayuk{}taa upaasate

Persons of firm resolve worship Me with ever steadfast devotion by
always singing My glories, striving to attain Me, and prostrating
before Me. (9.14)

GYaanayaGYena chaapyanye yajanto maamupaasate .
ekatvena pR^ithak{}tvena bahudhaa vishvatomukham.h

Some worship Me by knowledge sacrifice. Others worship the infinite
as the one in all (or non-dual), as the master of all (or dual), and
in various other ways. (9.15)
Swami Dayananda in `Gita Homestudy Notes,' provides an interesting
example: " Suppose someone is ignorant of an object. He insists, for
instance, that charcoal cannot become a diamond. I can perhaps
educate him and show him how it becomes a diamond. I can make him
understand because it is an object. But if a person is ignorant of
himself, anything that he seeks - freedom, happiness, freedom from
agitation, - happens to be himself. Now how will I arrest this
person's attention? How am I going to show him himself? This is not
possible unless he has sraddha that the self revealed in the Sastra
does exist. The recognition of that self is possible only when you
first recognize it as asti. Sraddha is indispensible because you
cannot stumble upon this particular fact. You can stumble upon
something other than yourself but not yourself. If someone does not
recognize the possibility of such a fact, he cannot accept that the
self is free from any sense of limitation. That is why it is always
said that if a person has an affinity for non-duality, it is only
because of the grace of the Lord, Isvara anugrahat eva pumsam
advaita vasana."
Some would argue that in helpless situations, out of the sheer
despair, a person can perhaps become a kind of bhakta. But even this
is impossible without Isvara's grace. A person in distress can
remain in distress and even can become more desperate without the
Grace of the Lord. But to recognize that I am the whole requires
not just some grace; it requires EXTRAORDINARY GRACE.
We can go even one step further and say that understanding
Shankara's advaita philosophy also requires Isvara's Grace. The
entire discussion on "What is real and what is unreal" by Sri
Chittaranjan and Sadaji also underlines the fundamental fact that
everything is REAL because "Brahman is everything !" Only with His
grace, we can recognize that we are "Real" when we identify
ourselves with Isvara (Brahman/Atman).

Warmest regards,
Ram Chandran

--- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Chittaranjan Naik"
<chittaranjan_naik@y...> wrote:
> Namaste Shri Amit-ji,
>
> I bow down to you, Amitji.

After reading all the posts in this thread the following verse

comes to mind ...


yatha drgdrsamatmanam svayamatma na pasyati

ato na bhasyate hyatma yam pasyati sa bhasyate


As with the eye which cannot see itself,

(So) the Self does not see itself,

Therefore indeed, the Self is not the object of consciousness.

That which the Self sees is the object of consciousness.

from Darshana Mala (garland of visions) -Nataraja Guru

http://www.donberry.com/Philosophy/D.../dm-title.html - 2k -
cached

Aum VASUDEVAM SARVAM ITI!