--- In achintya (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "sumeet1981" <sumeet1981@y...> wrote:
> Hare Krishna
>
> Here is a quote from Vishnu Purana (5.33.46)
>
> "yo harih sa sivah saksad yah sivah sa svayam harih
> ye tayor bhedamati sthan narakaya bhave nnarah "
>
> TRANSLATION: Whoever is Lord Hari, He Himself is Lord Shiva indeed.
> Whoever is manifesting as Lord Shiva, He Himself is Lord Hari. Any
> human being who mistakes both the Lords to be different, he/she
> surely goes to hell.
>
> How this is understood in Vaishnava tradition ? Please reply with
> scriptural and acarya commentary support. Anyone knows, how Sridhar
> Swami comments on this verse ?
>

Sumeet, I have no commentary on the Vishnu Puraana upon which to base
my response. Anand Karalapakkam (is he here?) is a Sri Vaishnava who
might be more familiar with the text and how Sri Vaishnavas usually
interpret it. However, I can say a few things with the edition I have
(the critical edition published by H.H. Wilson):

(1) Shaivites frequently quote verses out of context to establish
that Shiva is absolutely the same as Vishnu. This is no exception.
This chapter describes the battle between Krishna and the thousand-
armed Baanaasura, who was aided by Lord Shiva. The Bhaagavatam
describes that Krishna fought with Shiva before engaging Baanaasura,
and that Shiva was defeated by Him. The Vishnu Puraana agrees with
this account - indeed, in this very chapter the Vishnu Puraana states:

harisha.nkarayoryuddhamatiivaasiit sudaaruNam |
chukShubhuH sakalaa lokaaH shastraastraa.nshuprataapitaaH || vp
5.33.22 ||
pralayo 'yamashoShasya jagato nuunamaagataH |
menire tridashaa yatra varttamaanu mahaahave || vp 5.33.23 ||
jR^imbhaNaastreNa govindo jR^imbhayaasaasa sha.nkaram |
tataH praNeshurdaiteyaaH pramathaashcha samantataH || vp 5.33.24 ||
jR^imbhaabhibhuutashcha haro rathopastha upaavishat |
na shashaaka tathaa yoddhu.m kR^iShNenaakliShTakarmmaNaa || vp
5.33.25 ||

A fierce combat took place between Hari and Shankara; all the regions
shook, scorched by their flaming weapons, and the celestials felt
assured that the end of the universe was at hand. Govinda, with the
weapon of yawning set Shankara a-gape; and then the demons and the
demigods attendant upon Shiva were destroyed on every side; for Hara,
overcome with incessant gaping, sat down in his car, and was unable
longer to contend with Krishna, Whom no acts affect. (viShNu puraaNa
5.33.22-25)

>From this account, several questions naturally arise:

a) If Vishnu Puraana says that Krishna and Shiva are the same Supreme
Personality of Godhead, then why is the Lord fighting with Himself?

b) If Vishnu Puraana says that Krishna and Shiva are the same Supreme
Personality of Godhead, why does it say that Krishna defeated Shiva,
making Shiva vulnerable to Krishna's "yawning weapon?"

c) If Vishnu Puraana says that Krishna and Shiva are the same Supreme
Personality of Godhead, why does it describe Krishna only as one whom
no karma affects, in contrast to Shiva for whom no such description
is given, and who fell victim to Krishna's yawning weapon? Two things
which are the same must have the same properties; this is simple
logic.

d) Baanaasura requested the boon of Shiva to fight with an opponent
worthy of his newly acquired power (the thousand arms given by
Shiva). If Shiva is the same as Krishna, then why didn't Shiva
himself offer Baana that fight, instead of cursing him that Krishna
would do so later instead?

If Krishna = Shiva, and this is really the conclusion of the Vishnu
Puraana, then the Shaivites should have perfectly logical
explanations for the above discrepancies. Try asking them about them.
If my past experience is at all predictive, then I guarantee you that
any answer you receive by the internet Shaivites to these very
logical and appropriate questions will be something to the effect
that you are a fanatic for daring to disagree with them.

(2) The verse you quoted is not to be found in the critical edition
of the Vishnu Puraana which I have. However, scanning back and forth,
I did find a similar verse which yours might be an alternate version
of. This verse is spoken by Lord Krishna to Lord Shiva at the
conclusion of the chapter. Here it is:

yuShmaddattavaro baaNo jiivataameSha shankara |
tvadavaakyagauravaadetanmayaa chakra.m nivattitam || vp 5.33.46 ||
tvayaa yadbhaya.m datta.m taddattamakhila.m mayaa |
matto 'vibhinnamaatmaana.m drShtumarhasi shankara || vp 5.33.47 ||
yo 'ha.m sa tva.m jagachcheda.m sadevaasuramaanuSham |
avidhyaamohitaatmaanaH puruShaa bhinnadarshinaH || vp 5.33.48 ||

Since you, Shankara, have given a boon unto Baana, let him live, from
respect to your promises, my discus is arrested: the assurance of
safety granted by you is granted also by me. You are fit to apprehend
that you are not distinct from me. That which I am, thou art; and
that also is this world, with its gods, demons, and mankind. Men
contemplate distinctions, because thy are stupified by ignorance.
(viShNu puraaNa 5.33.46-48)

Now, call me crazy, but looking at this verse as it is written, and
within the context in which it is found, it seems quite obvious that
this is not a specific statement of identity between Vishnu and
Shiva. Rather, it is a statement of the general "oneness" of things,
from which the "oneness" of Vishnu and Shiva is also understood.
There is a place in achintya bedha abedha for some sense
of "oneness." One could argue however, that the "oneness" spoken of
here is kevalaadvaita. However, I do not wish to get into that here,
as that is by no means obvious, and in fact it can be defeated with
many logical and shaastric arguments.

The point here is that Krishna is NOT telling Shiva that they are the
same Supreme Lord - rather, He is clearly telling him that there is
oneness between them just as there is oneness between Himself and
this world, the gods, demons, etc.

Thus, if Shaivites use this verse to say that one can worship Shiva
instead of Krishna because they are "one," then by the same logic,
they must conceed that one can also worship this world, other gods,
or even demons, who are also included in the list of things which
are "one." Will they accept it? I do not think so.

In my experience, Shaivites try to prove unsuccessfully that Vishnu
and Shiva are the same Deity. When this fails, they then try to to
give the same argument by using Advaita philosophy - Vishnu and Shiva
are the same because everything is the same. When they do that, you
can simply revert to anti-Advaita logic to refute them.

yours,

K