And long, long, long before all that, they were with Krsna in Goloka

The teachings of Srila Prabhupada are the teachings of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta - “The position of the jiva IS a part of the tatastha-sakti that can enjoy, cease to enjoy, and go back to his original position”. Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 101
<o:p></o:p>
Those who choose to misuse their freewill fall to the material world and they are therefore imperfect because they gave up their perfect position as nitya-siddha by choosing to forget that ‘eternal body. Therefore, by dent of their selfish imagination, they enter the material creation.
<o:p></o:p>
Bhaktivinoda Thakura - “The imprisonment of the jiva began when the jiva forgot his position as the eternal servant of Sri Krsna. This forgetfulness is the original offence of the jiva and is the root of all the jiva’s subsequent offences.” Jaiva Dharma in Nitya Dharma, part 5 –<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “He has fallen means he has given up the service of Krsna.” Tokyo on April 20, 1972 <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Giving up the service to Sri Krsna is due to freewill which leads to more forgetfulness due to the choices one makes due to that free will. There are other aspects of freewill, but giving up service means giving up our love to Krsna, or we want to serve in another way that is not compatible in the spiritual world.
<o:p></o:p>
Some devotees seem to think that this discussion of the “Fall, no fall of the Jiva” started after Prabhupada’s disappearance but that is not a fact.
<o:p></o:p>
In the early 1972, Madhudvisa had to deal with the issue in Australia while travelling around preaching on a Double Decker travelling Temple that I was also personally on and the Crow and Tal Fruit Logic letter is a result of that exchange with devotees who thought we came from the Brahmajyoti. The letter has typed parts, Prabhupada also added his own handwritten notes, and he signed the letter by hand. Madhudvisa has the letter.
<o:p></o:p>
In the 1972, Siddhasvarupananda Swami was preaching that the jivas came from the Brahmajyoti and Srila Prabhupada told him not to preach that in his temples.
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Your last question ‘How is the soul degraded (by lust, anger and greed) when it is transcendental to the body? letter to Caturbhuja Dasa, L.A., 5-9-73<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Doesn’t that imply that the soul has changed? ‘No. The soul never changes, but due to his tinyness, he may become forgetful of his relationship with Krsna”. letter to Caturbhuja Dasa, L.A., 5-9-73<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “The spiritual quality of the spiritual spark has not changed but he has forgotten his spiritual nature, bewildered by the imperfect desire to become equal or greater than Krsna.” letter to Caturbhuja Dasa, L.A., 5-9-73<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Most of the verses from Brahma Vaivarta Purana are showing how a jiva can go to Vaikuntha or Goloka but unless one’s devotion is FULLY developed he will fall back to this material world due to lack of chit (knowledge) strength.
<o:p></o:p>
Nevertheless, eventually he/she will return and stay permanently in Vaikuntha/Goloka, regaining his/hers authentic svarupa bodily identity that is actually permanently there in Goloka, even if one forgets this fact.
<o:p></o:p>
Such comments seem inconceivable, but are they? Actually, they are easily understood when one ‘realizes, by dent of bhakti, what the eternal present actually means’. In other words, our perpetual body is permanently locked, protected, and secured in the eternal present because there is no portal of past or future for it to ever leave. Therefore if there id fall down, it is only consciously via ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams, never as ones original body.
<o:p></o:p>
Now that wasn’t too difficult to understand was it? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Verses in shastra cleary state, that the ones who do not fall from Vaikuntha are referring either to jivas who fell originally and are now reinstated, and generally won’t fall again, or to those jivas who never fell to begin with.
<o:p></o:p>
Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur clarifies the point in Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 101
<o:p></o:p>
“The position of the jiva IS a part of the tatastha-sakti that can enjoy, cease to enjoy, and go back to his original position”.
<o:p></o:p>
And Srila Prabhupada says in a similar vein on a morning walk:
<o:p></o:p>
Paramahamsa - So we can come to the spiritual world and return?
<o:p></o:p>
Prabhupada - Yes.
<o:p></o:p>
Paramahamsa - Falldown?
<o:p></o:p>
Prabhupada - Yes…. He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. (Cheviot Hills Golf Course-5-13-73, L.A.)
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada stressed the verse: Mahaajano yena gatah sa panthaa - one must follow in the footsteps of the Mahajanas
<o:p></o:p>
Mahabhaarata, Vana Parva, 313.117. And who is speaking these verses from Brahma Vaivarta Purana?
<o:p></o:p>
They happen to be Mahajanas.
<o:p></o:p>
Narayana Rsi is talking to Narada Rsi about what Yamaraj spoke to Savitri (Mother of the vedas). Brahma also joins in later. So, their statements carry weight.
<o:p></o:p>
So, for our Brahmajyoti-Vadi friends (no fall avadis and no dream avadis) what will they do now?<o:p></o:p>